![\"\"](\"http:\/\/cdn2.bigcommerce.com\/server3700\/54e42\/product_images\/uploaded_images\/pliny-logo.jpg\"){kind=logo}
<\/p>\n
Research<\/h1>\nRecipe Notes<\/h2>\n
So after looking at a few pages I’ve discovered that this is going to take a bit of research as there is no definitive recipe. \u00a0I’ve done as much research as I can stand and have looked for articles and interviews about\u00a0Vinnie Cilurozo (RRB owner and PTE recipe inventor) where he might give hints about the recipe. \u00a0Secondly, I’ve also looked for others that have cloned this beer and their direct comparisons to the real Pliny the Elder. \u00a0Lastly, I’ve taken some notes from those that do a comparison of their clone to their recollection of the Pliny the Elder which in most cases is probably suspect. \u00a0There are a ton of posts about that the recipe is great, which I imagine is the case, but I’m looking to hit PTE on the head if I can.<\/p>\n
The starting point for the recipe is from an article from Zymurgy by Vinnie \u00a0in 2009. \u00a0In this article Vinnie gives a recipe for Pliny the Elder. \u00a0Apparently there was a typo in the first release that had the amounts sized for 5G instead of 6G, but the attached PDF is the corrected version. \u00a0Also on EC Kraus<\/a> there is a reference to a recipe in Brewing Classic Styles by Jamil Zainasheff that may have had input by Vinnie. \u00a0I can see that the OG is much higher, the grain bill and hop schedule are different. \u00a0So at this point I think this recipe is not a clone, but rather just a good DIPA.<\/p>\n There is a rather good interview on the Sunday Session <\/a>by the Brewing Network.\u00a0 In this I’ve noted (as many others have reported)<\/p>\n There is also a rather lengthy forum on HomeBrewTalk.com that I’ve gotten a few notes from. \u00a0#63 by RichBenn says this is pretty spot on, but maybe the comparison wasn’t side by side since the PTE he has is at a bar. \u00a0The quote below is one of the few direct comparisons that I’ve come across.<\/p>\n #431\u00a0<\/a>by D-Train<\/a>\u00a0I had the opportunity to try my execution of this clone side by side with a bottle of Pliny tonight. Keep in mind that I’m fairly new to brewing and maybe experience would change the results. They were close, but there are a few things I would change next time.<\/p>\n 1. Add Amarillo to the dry\/late addition hops. The real Pliny was definitely weighted more to the citrus side. The clone had more dank\/pine. I’ve read that Pliny now includes Amarillo. All said the above differences were not significant. With a few tweaks I don’t think a blind test would pick the real Pliny. Again it could simply be my execution of the recipe. Caveat emptor.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Some thoughts on this.<\/p>\n For #1, a\u00a0look at the RRB website of Pliny the Elder and as the Sunday session interview notes that Amarillo is now in the recipe which wasn’t in the original. \u00a0Since I’m trying to do a taste comparison I’ve added Amarillo where I think it might go.<\/p>\n #2 shows he used hop shots. \u00a0In other articles (#85<\/a>, 5 tips for better IPAs<\/a> by Vinnie recommends extracts, and oldschool hints<\/a> that a Sunday Session recording states the real PTE uses extracts too), it is noted that that the 90 and 45min additions of PTE are extract additions, so this is some good information.\u00a0 Its also worth pointing out that the Vinnie recipe shows the AA values for each hops.\u00a0 When looking online it seems that the AA levels are a bit higher that noted by Vinnie.\u00a0 I don’t think I’m going to adjust for this now except for in the extract additions, but it might be something worth tweaking if I do this again.\u00a0 Now there is the issue of converting the hops to extract amounts.\u00a0 To do this I partially used two websites.\u00a0 The first, from brewer’s friend<\/a>,\u00a0 I user to convert the hop additions to an IBU calculation.\u00a0 The second I use to convert the IBU calculation into an extract amount.\u00a0 The extract calculation<\/a> uses a utilization faction which is more or less a function of the amount of time the extract is in contact with boiling wort and the amount of wort it can be in contact with.\u00a0 I’ve noticed that it doesn’t quite account for the volume right, so I’ve looked at the html source to get the calculations and have made the needed adjustments.\u00a0 The adjustments are slight and probably won’t make a difference in the end, but being an engineer I wanted to see the math done right.\u00a0 My calculations show that 18.75mL and 4.34mL of extract is needed for the two additions.\u00a0 From what D-train recommended 2 hop shots instead of 3 (I’ve translated this to be 10mL instead of 15mL) whereas I’m going to be even higher.\u00a0 I think I’ll stick to my calculations for now and see what I think too, but it is probably that not only has Amarillo been added, but that the extract has gone down too to please more pallets and\/or to reduce the cost (though RRB\u00a0 does seem to make too many recipe decisions on cost).<\/p>\n #3, color, is interesting. \u00a0 It seems to have been repeated by VTCCbrewer (#295<\/a>) though one note on this one is that he mentions is volume is slightly low which would affect the color too. bobbrews (#131<\/a>) has a similar suspicion as I do that perhaps crystal 40 is used rather than crystal 45 and MMjfan (#161<\/a>) suggests 1\/2 the amount crystal 40 at 0.3lbs. \u00a0After adjusting the recipe to this the OG sits at 1.071. \u00a0When looking at the PTE website is states an OG of 1.070, but if you look back through the web archives it can be seen that this was 1.071 circa 2005<\/a> (and 1.073 circa 2004<\/a>). So I think this is on the right track and I’ll go with it. \u00a0Funny thing is that after making the adjustments I come up with a grain bill almost the same as Scott (bertusbrewery.com<\/a>) on his PTE 3.0 review<\/a>. \u00a0Aside from the fast that his reviews are a recollection of his tasting it at least feels nice that I’ve ended up with what one person thinks is pretty good after adjusting twice.<\/p>\n Water. \u00a0As noted in #4 water should be addressed. \u00a0My first attempt at water adjustments was on #10 Irish Red. \u00a0I didn’t quite have a handle on things then, nor do I really know what I’ve doing now, but I’ve been reading a lot since then and think I can at least do better. \u00a0Another HBT forum discusses PTE water<\/a>\u00a0which concludes by saq (#5<\/a>) that the water profile should be:<\/p>\n per Vinnie’s article.<\/p>\n In a (need to find link) Vinnie notes that PTE takes 21-24 days. \u00a0 This is up to kegging so for me I need to add 3 days for fining and 3 weeks for bottle conditioning. \u00a0My schedule at 25 days, not counting conditioning, is pretty close to Vinnie’s schedule<\/p>\n The yeast, Cal Ale WLP001<\/a>, normally has an attenuation around 76.5% and according to White Labs attenuation ranges from 73-80%. \u00a0With the corn sugar, many people have noted that they can get near the a FG of 1.011 which places the attenuation around 85%. to get to 8.0% with the grain bill I’ve selected I’ll need to get 86.1% which seems within reason.<\/p>\n Finally, the name for my clone. \u00a0As is pointed out by RRB and many other sources, Pliny the Elder gave the name or at least recorded the name for hops as he was an author of many books. \u00a0From Wikipedia<\/a>, it notes that:<\/p>\n He (Pliny the Elder) published a three-book, six-volume educational manual on rhetoric, entitled Studiosus, “the Student”<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Just maybe my blog has enough rhetoric where you think I have the best plan possible to clone Pliny the Elder.<\/p>\n\n
\n
\n2. Use only 2 hopshots for the first addition. I used 3 hopshots and the clone was more bitter. Earlier I posted that I was using hop extract for the recipe.
\n3. Make it lighter in color by reducing the crystal and\/or boiling for 60 mins instead of 90 and\/or increasing the dextrose. I scaled up the recipe and went with 14lb 2row, 0.6lb carapils, 0.6lb crystal, 12 oz dextrose. The clone was more orange and the Pliny more yellow.
\n4. Switch to RO water and the additions in the chemistry primer on this site. So far I’ve ignored water chemistry in my brews. I have high pH, high alkalinity tap water with chlorine and I think it’s limiting the full potential of my brews.<\/p>\n\n
\u00a0Process Notes<\/h2>\n
\n
\n
\n
\n